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| Re:地产商也有“苦衷” |
注册建筑师证书
发贴: 6253 
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 2010-04-19 09:55 
       任志强经历 山东莱州人，1951年3月出生1969年1月陕西省延安县冯庄公社插队 1969-1981年参军，先后任排长、参谋 1981-1984年任北京怡达公司副总经理 1984-1988年任北京市华远经济建设开发总公司建设部经理 1988-1991年任北京市华远经济建设开发总公司副总经理兼华远城市建设开发公司经理 1991-1993年任北京市华远经济建设开发总公司总经理 1993年8月至今任北京市华远集团总裁，华远集团公司总经理 其间1993年3月-2000年4月兼北京市华远房地产股份有限公司董事长、总经理 2000年5月-2001年9月兼任北京市华远房地产股份有限公司董事长 2001年12月—2002年12月兼任北京市华远新时代房地产开发有限公司董事长兼总经理 2002年12月至今兼任北京市华远地产股份有限公司董事长兼总经理 任志强曾当选为西城区人大代表，现任北京市政协委员。他还分别在多个社团组织、大学等机构任顾问、理事、兼职教授、副主席等职务，在华远集团持有股权的合资公司或下属公司担任董事长、总经理等职。 任志强战略 任志强先生延续着他一贯的风格，有理有据地、自信满满地证明着，华远早在《物权法》出台前就首创的业权制度是房地产企业可以借鉴的一条应对《物权法》实施变化的成熟之路。说实话，笔者在此之前，不是很了解华远的业权制度，只知道华远的确在推动开发商与业主权利明确方面起了积极作用，有幸在现场得以详解。华远的业权制度，就是开发商在和业主签订购房合同时，就会明确地告知购房者，楼盘内哪些面积的收益是开发商的，哪些是业主的，如何分配，都很清楚地写进合同。因为在知情权上没有蒙蔽业主，既避免了将来的物业纠纷，也从一定程度上实践了《物权法》对私权保护的精神。当然，这要求开发商事先做很多功课，要有一套严密准确的核算体系，准备一大堆契约合同，因为这些是没有房管部门印发的制式合同的。 任志强的逻辑很简单，只要开发商事先和业主说清楚了，这是你的，那是我的，“凯撒的归凯撒，市场的归市场”，只要业主在研究之后，同意了这些很详细的约定，那么即使将来产生纠纷，也很好解决的。至少，业主的物权得到了尊重和体现。有人说了，在开发商强势的情况下，还不是开发商说了算？没错，也许的确最占便宜的还是开发商，因为他们愿意出让的业权部分也许很小，肥肉还留给自己吃。那我们反问一下，比起那些除了卖房子给你啥也不说、把小区里的一切收益都占为己有啥也不说的开发商，一个至少还和你分享物权、明确你在小区里除了房子还有其他权益的开发商是不是显得可爱一点呢？ 任志强曾经不止一次地说过，他是一个商人。中国的商人，有多少是这样率真、直率的？有多少敢于亮出自己的观点、说自己想赚钱的？有，但很少。他们尽管心里想着赚钱，甚至不择手段地赚钱，但是，他们嘴里绝对不会承认。他们张着血盆大口掠夺百姓，侵犯老百姓的利益，还要装出一副慈善家的样子。他们利用国家的行政权力，大捞其财，还要老百姓不说话、不发言。他们已经盆满钵满了，还要向国家有关部门施压，提价收费。任志强不一样，他直率地告诉我们，他是商人，他的目的就是赚钱。他的话虽然听起来不太舒服，但让人心里服气。 任志强也不止一次地说过，开发商就是为富人建房的。当我们初次听到这样的话的时候，确实很气愤。开发商为什么只能给富人建房？为什么就不能给穷人建房？其实，他说的却是一句大实话。事实证明，没有一个开发商不是在为富人建房，没有一个开发商不是为了赚钱。即使是打着政府名义、用尽了政府政策的开发商，也是只想着赚钱。那么，任志强的话错在哪呢？如果国家有关部门把任志强的话当作真话，地方政府是一个真正的“民本政府”，那就应当从中品味到些什么，从而，采取针对性措施，防止问题的发生。就应当及早组织力量、安排土地、指定建设部门，解决普通群众，尤其是中低收入群众的住房问题。但是，有多少地方采取了措施呢？国家有关部门又出台了什么政策呢？ 任志强预言，中国的房价会大涨，可是，有谁相信呢？国家有关部门相信吗？地方政府相信吗？专家、学者们相信吗？谁都不相信，谁都认为他是“狂言”，可结果呢？任志强的预言没有几年就兑现了，全国各地的房价都象脱缰野马一样。现在看来，任志强的预言不是来自于他的狂妄，而来自于他对现实的判断、实际的了解、行情的分析。他没有象国家有关部门一样坐在办公室里做决策，也没有象地方政府一样拍脑袋，更没有象一些专家、学者一样完全从理论上进行分析。而是经过了大量的调查研究，采集了大量的数据资料，他不仅了解国内的情况，还了解国外的情况。现在，他对2008年后的房价走向问题作出的预测，可能又是正确的。因为，他与政府官员、专家、学者相比，已经又做了更为充分的调查研究和分析判断了。 任志强或许是一个狂妄的人，是一个十分张扬的人，但是，他更是一个十分率真的人。正如记者所说，他不象有的商人，说话支支吾吾、吞吞吐吐，或避而不答，或答非所问。他不仅有问必答，而且锋芒毕露。也就是伪君子与真小人的区别吧。 中国与其要那些说假话、说空话、说套话的人，还不如任志强这样虽没有人情味，但敢于说真话的人。 社会评价 任志强挨揍指数仅次于*** 2008年4月11日晚10点半，参加博鳌论坛的潘石屹在从索菲亚酒店回来的专车上爆料：因为任志强经常口无遮拦得罪了许多人，据说进入“最想揍的人”排名的第二名，第一名是***。 这话出自潘石屹之口，又虽然在非正式场合，看似笑料，其实说的是实话。人称富霸的任志强有个口出狂言爱放炮的嗜好，每遇出头露脸的机会，都放出一段惊人的语录，大树自己“语不惊人死不休”的狂妄品牌。什么“房地产就该是暴利行业”；什么“中国住房分为穷人区与富人区很正常”；什么“房价降了，房地产开发商有权不盖房”；什么“商品房定价无需公众监督 ”；什么“历史证明房价永远都是上涨”……在本次博鳌亚洲论坛2008年年会“对话房地产”会议上，任志强又口出狂言“对真正有钱的人来说房价还不够高”。 把任志强的狂言归结为一点，就是和穷人过不去，好像穷人就是穷命，他任志强暴富也是生来的福份似的。值得注意的是，现在的任志强口出狂言与原来有所不同，刚开始，他确实是情绪化较为突出，狂言因情绪失控冒出。而现在则是长期积累形成习惯后的自然流露，而且还想上升到“理论”层面，用以蒙人唬人。比如，前不久，他在博客上写了篇文章《不要被媒体忽悠了》 ，文中提到了八个误区，其中一条说：“贫穷不是一种权力，利用贫穷向政府伸手的社会风气应坚决的打击，以保证社会的和谐与进步”。还特别引用***“贫穷不是社会主义”的名言，来为自己的观点做证据，说什么“开始让一部分人先富起来了，推行市场经济了，也同时产生了贫富之间的差别”。 贫穷不是一种权力。这句话很耐人寻味，反过来就是富裕是种权力？***在说让一部分人先富起来的同时，还有“让先富者带领大家共同致富”的话，怎么到了任志强自己成富豪了就变味了，不带领穷人了？贫穷是相对于富人而产生的，贫穷与富裕是一对不可分割的连生体，没有穷人就没有富人，任何人试图把两者分开的做法都是阴险的也是徒劳的。这个简单的道理难道任志强不懂吗？在我看来，漠视穷人是任志强长久蕴藏内心的真情实感，是旗帜鲜明地向穷人显示自己的力量，竭力维护地产商乃至整个富人阶层利益的真实写照。 任志强“对真正有钱的人来说房价还不够高”的新狂言，再次暴露他一贯的本性。由任志强我想到了董卓，董卓在《三国演义》上有句遗臭万年的“名言”叫做“我为天下计，岂惜小民哉”。说任志强是“为投资人计”，“为天下计”他还不配，但“岂惜小民哉”却是有过之而无不及。因为市场经济下的“岂惜小民哉”就意味着杀人不见血。[1] “雷人”语录 1.“粉丝卖到鱼翅的价格才叫泡沫。” “泡沫是世界经济融入中国以后才出现的词语。只有将粉丝卖到鱼翅的价格才是泡沫。房地产就是‘鱼翅’，而鱼翅贵也不是泡沫，粉丝也是粉丝的价格，也不是泡沫。” 2.“人人都买得起房 有其所者不应再买房” “有其所者不应买商品房，享受国家分配或限价、低价方式供给住房的不应购买商品房。正是因为对‘有其所’的理解变成了要有产权的“有其屋”才产生了社会的争论和政策的动摇。” 3.“房地产商需要囤地 地里有粮心中才不慌” “现在商品房的供应指标越来越少，今年也同样，国土资源部说的81个城市增加这么多供应量，80%是经济适用房，20%是商品房。如果担心下一顿没有了，房地产是要囤地的，手里有粮心中才不慌。” 4.“工资在涨 GDP在涨房价不涨就不对” “工资在涨，GDP在涨，房价不涨就不对了。全世界没有一个国家在收入增长时房价降低或者不涨，不符合经济规律啊。” 5.“中国人太有钱，房子太便宜” “为什么中国30岁以下的买房占比高达30%以上？就是中国的房子太便宜了。事实上，在欧美、日本、韩国，30岁以下的年轻人是买不起房子的。中国的年轻人也应该是这样。而目前中国的年轻人，基本上是靠父母的支撑才能买得起房子，也就是典型的‘啃老族’。” 6.“我们只是当丫环的。” “国有企业家、国有资本，政府让干什么就干什么，不让我们干房地产我就不干房地产。我们只是当丫环的，都是政府说了算。” 7.“宏观调控不为了让房价下跌，是为了稳涨” “宏观调控的目的不是为了让房价下跌，而是让房价稳定增长，不能因为房价没有下跌就认定宏观调控不到位。” 8.“房价降了，房地产开发商有权不盖房。” 只要市场有需求，小户型再多开发商也会继续，因为有钱赚。房价上涨会吸引更多开发商来盖房子；反过来，如果大家都不盖，房价也就上去了——总之是由供求关系决定的。” 9.“房地产就该是暴利行业” “没有巨大的利润支持，无法建设品牌，因此房产品牌就应该是具有暴利的。” 10.“我是商人，不考虑穷人” “我是一个商人，我不应该考虑穷人。如果考虑穷人，我作为一个企业的管理者就是错误的。因为投资者是让我拿这个钱去赚钱，而不是去救济穷人。” 11.“没买房的人都亏了” “没有买房的人都亏了。”“人民收入还在涨，土地资源不能增长，这两头已经限制住了，那房价能不涨吗？” 12.“中国可供开发的土地还有很多” “其实中国有的是地，我从来没有觉得中国没有地了，960万平方公里，我们只占了全国国土的0.3%，按同样的人口密度，1%的国土就可以把中国的13亿人全放在城市里，会用多少提出？用不了多少。” 13.“高档房本来就是穷人买不起的” “从全国的情况调查，中国拥有第二套住房的比例只占8%，而这里面商品房的不到6%。高级的小区两会期间全亮着，主要为了两会时间用，这些房子本来穷人买不起的。” 14.“公布开发商成本等于让男人公布老婆的三围数据” 开发商是绝对不能公布成本的，这等于让一个男人把自己老婆的衣服全部扒光，让大众目测三围是一个道理，所以基本上不可能实现。 15.“我的房价不会降，让外地甚至境外富人来买房” 以“我的房价不会降”而频遭记者围堵的北京政协委员、北京市华远集团总裁任志强,建议北京放宽二套房购买政策,让更多外地甚至境外富人来京购房。房价本身就是控制人口增长与控制人口素质的门槛。过度扩张保障性住房建设，占用巨大的土地资源，使得房地产投资量缩小。 16.买不起房为什么不回农村 买不起房就该回农村 17.你敢咬我吗？啊？ 2009年10月新雷人语录。 |
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地产商也有“苦衷”
| 傻子Logic | 0 | 2010-03-31 18:05 |
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| 注册建筑师证书 | 28 | 2010-04-13 10:41 |
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| 粗腰大大 | 44 | 2010-04-12 11:49 |
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| 傻子Logic | 46 | 2010-04-16 07:03 |
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| 傻子Logic | 97 | 2010-04-01 10:16 |
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| 傻子Logic | 142 | 2010-04-06 22:09 |
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| 欧阳白羽 | 706 | 2010-04-21 01:41 |
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| philens | 22 | 2010-04-01 09:56 |
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| 傻子Logic | 96 | 2010-04-07 23:21 |
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| xpp20002000 | 10 | 2010-04-01 09:53 |
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| 傻子Logic | 24 | 2010-04-06 09:01 |
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| Dhuman | 30 | 2010-04-03 18:32 |
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| 傻子Logic | 20 | 2010-04-10 07:50 |
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| dimo7929 | 5 | 2010-04-21 18:45 |
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| topic | 152 | 2010-04-22 20:55 |
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| 傻子Logic | 70 | 2010-04-07 07:24 |
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| 注册建筑师证书 | 47 | 2010-04-21 23:40 |
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| 傻子Logic | 48 | 2010-04-14 10:11 |
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| 傻子Logic | 51 | 2010-04-09 16:47 |
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| 傻子Logic | 142 | 2010-04-07 09:32 |
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| 上了建筑的贼船 | 21 | 2010-04-04 23:29 |
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| 傻子Logic | 148 | 2010-04-04 23:32 |
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| 傻子Logic | 118 | 2010-04-10 17:04 |
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| 傻子Logic | 59 | 2010-04-10 16:58 |
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| 傻子Logic | 92 | 2010-04-10 07:56 |
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| 傻子Logic | 114 | 2010-04-22 00:15 |
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| 注册建筑师证书 | 5 | 2010-04-22 00:24 |
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| 傻子Logic | 1812 | 2010-04-22 00:37 |
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| 傻子Logic | 40 | 2010-04-22 00:42 |
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| topic | 199 | 2010-04-22 13:04 |
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| topic | 35 | 2010-04-22 13:08 |
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| 傻子Logic | 106 | 2010-04-10 18:35 |
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| topic | 40 | 2010-04-22 13:13 |
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| topic | 98 | 2010-04-22 13:26 |
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| topic | 119 | 2010-04-22 13:38 |
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| topic | 55 | 2010-04-22 13:46 |
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| topic | 245 | 2010-04-22 20:56 |
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| 一寸人 | 26 | 2010-04-22 13:50 |
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| 傻子Logic | 77 | 2010-04-22 14:06 |
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| 傻子Logic | 44 | 2010-04-23 10:37 |
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| topic | 0 | 2010-04-23 10:40 |
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| 粗腰大大 | 192 | 2010-04-23 15:07 |
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| topic | 106 | 2010-04-23 21:50 |
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| topic | 466 | 2010-04-23 10:33 |
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| topic | 100 | 2010-04-22 19:27 |
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| 傻子Logic | 167 | 2010-04-22 19:46 |
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| 贝家子弟 | 133 | 2010-05-10 13:06 |
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| 傻子Logic | 260 | 2010-05-10 13:34 |
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| 傻子Logic | 117 | 2010-04-02 10:56 |
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| 傻子Logic | 34 | 2010-04-22 19:38 |
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| 傻子Logic | 113 | 2010-04-22 19:40 |
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| 傻子Logic | 124 | 2010-04-22 19:50 |
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| 傻子Logic | 142 | 2010-04-22 19:51 |
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| 一寸人 | 54 | 2010-04-22 19:59 |
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| 傻子Logic | 179 | 2010-04-22 20:02 |
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| 一寸人 | 202 | 2010-04-22 20:26 |
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| 傻子Logic | 62 | 2010-04-22 19:58 |
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| 傻子Logic | 31 | 2010-04-22 20:04 |
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| topic | 105 | 2010-04-22 20:51 |
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| 一寸人 | 3 | 2010-04-22 20:58 |
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| 一寸人 | 4 | 2010-04-22 21:00 |
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| 傻子Logic | 102 | 2010-04-20 15:21 |
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| 一寸人 | 166 | 2010-04-20 15:38 |
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| 傻子Logic | 148 | 2010-04-20 16:47 |
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| topic | 58 | 2010-04-22 21:01 |
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| 傻子Logic | 31 | 2010-04-22 21:34 |
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| topic | 142 | 2010-04-22 22:09 |
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| 傻子Logic | 120 | 2010-04-22 23:14 |
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| 傻子Logic | 19 | 2010-04-22 21:36 |
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| 傻子Logic | 187 | 2010-04-22 21:41 |
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| 傻子Logic | 55 | 2010-04-22 21:57 |
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| topic | 23 | 2010-04-22 22:10 |
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| topic | 55 | 2010-04-22 22:18 |
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| topic | 93 | 2010-04-22 22:55 |
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| topic | 18 | 2010-04-22 22:20 |
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| topic | 22 | 2010-04-22 22:25 |
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| 傻子Logic | 83 | 2010-04-17 10:00 |
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| 傻子Logic | 220 | 2010-04-03 13:50 |
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| topic | 51 | 2010-04-22 22:50 |
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| topic | 20 | 2010-04-22 22:54 |
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| 傻子Logic | 103 | 2010-04-22 23:17 |
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| 傻子Logic | 70 | 2010-04-22 23:21 |
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| 傻子Logic | 98 | 2010-04-22 23:36 |
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| topic | 109 | 2010-04-23 00:24 |
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| topic | 144 | 2010-04-23 00:27 |
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| topic | 49 | 2010-04-23 00:30 |
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| topic | 77 | 2010-04-23 00:32 |
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| topic | 77 | 2010-04-23 00:57 |
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| 傻子Logic | 70 | 2010-04-16 15:49 |
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| topic | 35 | 2010-04-23 00:33 |
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| topic | 112 | 2010-04-23 01:00 |
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| topic | 112 | 2010-04-23 01:01 |
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| huamine | 43 | 2010-04-23 01:03 |
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| topic | 142 | 2010-04-23 01:06 |
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| topic | 43 | 2010-04-23 01:04 |
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| topic | 83 | 2010-04-23 01:14 |
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| 傻子Logic | 219 | 2010-04-23 07:10 |
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| topic | 314 | 2010-04-23 07:20 |
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| 傻子Logic | 83 | 2010-04-23 07:01 |
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| 傻子Logic | 65 | 2010-04-23 07:02 |
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| 傻子Logic | 84 | 2010-04-23 07:03 |
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| 傻子Logic | 103 | 2010-04-23 07:04 |
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| 傻子Logic | 117 | 2010-04-20 10:11 |
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| 一寸人 | 136 | 2010-04-20 10:20 |
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| 傻子Logic | 94 | 2010-04-23 07:05 |
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| topic | 112 | 2010-04-23 07:10 |
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| 傻子Logic | 57 | 2010-04-23 07:25 |
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| topic | 246 | 2010-04-23 07:39 |
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| 傻子Logic | 223 | 2010-04-23 07:47 |
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| topic | 192 | 2010-04-23 10:12 |
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| 傻子Logic | 114 | 2010-04-23 10:15 |
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| 傻子Logic | 20 | 2010-04-23 07:51 |
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| 傻子Logic | 137 | 2010-04-23 09:24 |
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| 傻子Logic | 20 | 2010-04-23 09:29 |
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| 一寸人 | 72 | 2010-04-23 09:54 |
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| 傻子Logic | 56 | 2010-04-23 10:16 |
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| topic | 55 | 2010-04-23 10:21 |
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| 傻子Logic | 37 | 2010-04-23 10:24 |
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| 傻子Logic | 30 | 2010-04-23 10:31 |
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| 傻子Logic | 142 | 2010-04-20 18:00 |
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| 一寸人 | 138 | 2010-04-20 21:05 |
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| topic | 55 | 2010-04-23 10:31 |
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| 傻子Logic | 30 | 2010-04-23 10:32 |
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| 傻子Logic | 102 | 2010-04-23 15:10 |
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| 傻子Logic | 77 | 2010-04-23 17:47 |
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| 傻子Logic | 116 | 2010-04-23 20:20 |
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| topic | 43 | 2010-04-23 22:48 |
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| topic | 59 | 2010-04-23 22:52 |
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| 傻子Logic | 49 | 2010-04-23 23:15 |
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| topic | 0 | 2010-04-23 23:26 |
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| 傻子Logic | 131 | 2010-04-24 00:05 |
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| topic | 0 | 2010-04-24 00:32 |
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| 傻子Logic | 334 | 2010-04-24 00:35 |
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| 傻子Logic | 88 | 2010-04-24 06:21 |
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| topic | 12 | 2010-03-31 20:50 |
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| topic | 0 | 2010-04-02 10:26 |
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| 傻子Logic | 319 | 2010-04-02 10:35 |
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| topic | 0 | 2010-04-02 17:52 |
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| 傻子Logic | 163 | 2010-04-02 21:49 |
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| 傻子Logic | 1622 | 2010-04-24 07:14 |
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| 傻子Logic | 73 | 2010-04-24 07:17 |
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| 一寸人 | 2 | 2010-04-24 17:27 |
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| 傻子Logic | 96 | 2010-04-29 14:50 |
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| topic | 107 | 2010-04-25 02:20 |
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| 粗腰大大 | 161 | 2010-04-25 06:25 |
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| topic | 104 | 2010-04-25 09:28 |
| 30 |
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| 傻子Logic | 116 | 2010-04-19 11:58 |
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| 我h春天yg约会 | 293 | 2010-04-19 12:15 |
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| topic | 59 | 2010-04-25 02:24 |
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| topic | 247 | 2010-04-25 14:50 |
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| 傻子Logic | 222 | 2010-04-25 21:17 |
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| topic | 227 | 2010-04-25 22:29 |
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| 傻子Logic | 129 | 2010-04-25 21:18 |
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| topic | 94 | 2010-04-25 15:07 |
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| topic | 89 | 2010-04-25 15:30 |
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| topic | 66 | 2010-04-25 16:47 |
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| 一寸人 | 50 | 2010-04-25 21:34 |
| 31 |
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| 27 |
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| topic | 138 | 2010-04-25 22:36 |
| 28 |
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| 傻子Logic | 166 | 2010-04-25 22:40 |
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| topic | 148 | 2010-04-25 22:46 |
| 26 |
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| 傻子Logic | 110 | 2010-04-25 22:48 |
| 26 |
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| topic | 69 | 2010-04-25 22:59 |
| 26 |
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| 一寸人 | 161 | 2010-04-25 22:39 |
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| 24 |
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| topic | 129 | 2010-04-25 23:00 |
| 20 |
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| 一寸人 | 132 | 2010-04-25 23:16 |
| 18 |
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| topic | 62 | 2010-04-25 22:33 |
| 22 |
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| topic | 54 | 2010-04-25 23:07 |
| 22 |
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| 粗腰大大 | 172 | 2010-04-25 23:11 |
| 24 |
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| topic | 192 | 2010-04-25 23:24 |
| 21 |
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| 粗腰大大 | 125 | 2010-04-25 23:55 |
| 71 |
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| topic | 112 | 2010-04-25 23:05 |
| 34 |
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| 傻子Logic | 80 | 2010-04-26 11:04 |
| 21 |
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| 傻子Logic | 12 | 2010-04-04 09:08 |
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| topic | 0 | 2010-04-04 09:34 |
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| 8432 | 108 | 2010-04-06 12:11 |
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| topic | 105 | 2010-04-27 15:49 |
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| 注册建筑师证书 | 150 | 2010-04-26 20:19 |
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| topic | 231 | 2010-04-27 11:09 |
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| 欧阳白羽 | 284 | 2010-04-21 01:07 |
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| topic | 148 | 2010-04-27 09:40 |
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| 傻子Logic | 16 | 2010-04-27 12:20 |
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| topic | 165 | 2010-04-27 15:29 |
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| topic | 68 | 2010-04-27 15:55 |
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| topic | 246 | 2010-04-27 16:18 |
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| 傻子Logic | 68 | 2010-04-27 17:14 |
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| 注册建筑师证书 | 18 | 2010-04-19 15:48 |
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| 傻子Logic | 55 | 2010-04-02 07:22 |
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| 傻子Logic | 191 | 2010-04-27 17:40 |
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| 傻子Logic | 47 | 2010-04-29 12:01 |
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| 注册建筑师证书 | 14 | 2010-04-29 10:18 |
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| 傻子Logic | 76 | 2010-04-29 10:20 |
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| 傻子Logic | 23 | 2010-04-28 10:36 |
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| topic | 222 | 2010-04-28 11:28 |
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| topic | 60 | 2010-04-28 11:31 |
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| 傻子Logic | 138 | 2010-04-28 11:39 |
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| topic | 277 | 2010-04-28 11:37 |
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| topic | 386 | 2010-04-28 13:45 |
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| topic | 315 | 2010-04-28 13:43 |
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| topic | 243 | 2010-04-28 13:47 |
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| 傻子Logic | 47 | 2010-04-14 17:59 |
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| 傻子Logic | 27 | 2010-04-28 13:59 |
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| 傻子Logic | 52 | 2010-04-28 18:20 |
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| 傻子Logic | 173 | 2010-04-28 19:28 |
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| szdzfamen | 2781 | 2010-04-28 20:44 |
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| 傻子Logic | 168 | 2010-04-29 12:04 |
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| 注册建筑师证书 | 14 | 2010-04-29 10:23 |
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| 注册建筑师证书 | 629 | 2010-04-28 23:46 |
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| 傻子Logic | 266 | 2010-04-29 09:06 |
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| 傻子Logic | 252 | 2010-04-30 10:12 |
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| dymanics99 | 359 | 2010-04-30 10:19 |
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| 一寸人 | 37 | 2010-04-06 23:26 |
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| 一寸人 | 73 | 2010-04-07 17:29 |
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| 傻子Logic | 18 | 2010-04-30 11:27 |
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| 傻子Logic | 93 | 2010-04-30 16:56 |
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| 傻子Logic | 219 | 2010-05-05 10:50 |
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| 傻子Logic | 145 | 2010-04-30 17:57 |
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| 傻子Logic | 143 | 2010-04-30 22:37 |
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| 傻子Logic | 67 | 2010-04-01 14:30 |
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| 注册建筑师证书 | 173 | 2010-04-10 08:41 |
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| 傻子Logic | 1042 | 2010-04-30 22:40 |
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| 傻子Logic | 87 | 2010-04-30 22:56 |
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| 傻子Logic | 146 | 2010-05-01 00:28 |
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| topic | 76 | 2010-05-01 06:55 |
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| topic | 399 | 2010-05-01 08:05 |
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| topic | 337 | 2010-05-01 10:16 |
| 55 |
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| 粗腰大大 | 283 | 2010-05-01 10:36 |
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| topic | 174 | 2010-05-01 11:22 |
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| topic | 114 | 2010-05-01 16:36 |
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| topic | 80 | 2010-05-01 22:45 |
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| topic | 251 | 2010-05-01 16:39 |
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| 傻子Logic | 139 | 2010-05-01 09:19 |
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| 傻子Logic | 42 | 2010-05-01 07:32 |
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| topic | 42 | 2010-05-01 08:45 |
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| 傻子Logic | 134 | 2010-05-01 11:37 |
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| ArchRen | 18 | 2010-05-01 12:49 |
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| ArchRen | 74 | 2010-05-01 12:58 |
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| 傻子Logic | 160 | 2010-05-01 13:55 |
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| 我h春天yg约会 | 164 | 2010-05-01 17:46 |
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| topic | 103 | 2010-05-01 20:40 |
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| ArchRen | 191 | 2010-05-01 13:12 |
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| xueshixiao | 17 | 2010-04-04 01:59 |
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| 傻子Logic | 65 | 2010-05-01 14:04 |
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| topic | 0 | 2010-05-02 09:37 |
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| 傻子Logic | 85 | 2010-05-02 11:13 |
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| topic | 25 | 2010-05-01 16:47 |
| 33 |
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| 傻子Logic | 84 | 2010-05-01 16:49 |
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| topic | 101 | 2010-05-01 20:38 |
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| topic | 83 | 2010-05-01 22:50 |
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| topic | 52 | 2010-05-01 22:58 |
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| topic | 30 | 2010-05-01 23:01 |
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| 傻子Logic | 280 | 2010-04-13 12:10 |
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| topic | 50 | 2010-05-01 23:06 |
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| 傻子Logic | 40 | 2010-05-01 23:09 |
| 29 |
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| topic | 141 | 2010-05-01 23:13 |
| 29 |
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| 傻子Logic | 124 | 2010-05-01 23:28 |
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| 傻子Logic | 105 | 2010-05-01 23:32 |
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| topic | 20 | 2010-05-01 23:34 |
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| 傻子Logic | 55 | 2010-05-01 23:35 |
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| topic | 19 | 2010-05-01 23:36 |
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| 傻子Logic | 88 | 2010-05-01 23:37 |
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| topic | 86 | 2010-05-01 23:39 |
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| 傻子Logic | 65 | 2010-05-01 23:45 |
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| topic | 284 | 2010-05-02 00:17 |
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| topic | 45 | 2010-05-02 00:18 |
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| topic | 166 | 2010-05-02 07:13 |
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| 傻子Logic | 118 | 2010-04-05 09:03 |
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| topic | 502 | 2010-05-02 07:29 |
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| 傻子Logic | 216 | 2010-05-02 08:20 |
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| topic | 272 | 2010-05-02 07:35 |
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| 注册建筑师证书 | 19 | 2010-05-02 07:39 |
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| topic | 118 | 2010-05-02 07:43 |
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| topic | 156 | 2010-05-02 07:41 |
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| topic | 283 | 2010-05-02 07:51 |
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| 傻子Logic | 137 | 2010-05-02 08:14 |
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| topic | 130 | 2010-05-02 08:29 |
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| topic | 62 | 2010-05-02 07:53 |
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| topic | 100 | 2010-05-02 08:31 |
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| topic | 102 | 2010-05-02 08:40 |
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| topic | 87 | 2010-05-02 08:45 |
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| topic | 74 | 2010-05-02 08:49 |
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| topic | 37 | 2010-05-02 08:50 |
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| 傻子Logic | 96 | 2010-05-02 08:52 |
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| 注册建筑师证书 | 44 | 2010-04-15 21:37 |
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| 傻子Logic | 233 | 2010-04-15 23:25 |
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| topic | 38 | 2010-05-02 08:56 |
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| 傻子Logic | 114 | 2010-05-02 08:57 |
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| topic | 106 | 2010-05-02 08:59 |
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| topic | 63 | 2010-05-02 09:02 |
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| topic | 56 | 2010-05-02 09:05 |
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| 傻子Logic | 66 | 2010-05-02 09:11 |
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| topic | 168 | 2010-05-02 09:20 |
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| topic | 46 | 2010-05-02 09:14 |
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| 傻子Logic | 260 | 2010-05-02 09:25 |
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| 傻子Logic | 24 | 2010-05-02 11:11 |
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| 傻子Logic | 199 | 2010-05-02 11:12 |
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| 傻子Logic | 21 | 2010-05-02 11:21 |
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| 傻子Logic | 79 | 2010-05-02 11:35 |
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| 傻子Logic | 21 | 2010-04-12 07:28 |
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| 傻子Logic | 45 | 2010-05-02 14:02 |
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| topic | 8 | 2010-05-02 14:51 |
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| 傻子Logic | 62 | 2010-05-02 14:58 |
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| topic | 99 | 2010-05-02 16:07 |
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| topic | 29 | 2010-05-02 16:13 |
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| 粗腰大大 | 91 | 2010-05-02 17:48 |
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| topic | 110 | 2010-05-02 20:04 |
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| 傻子Logic | 171 | 2010-05-05 11:54 |
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| 傻子Logic | 55 | 2010-05-02 17:50 |
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| topic | 28 | 2010-05-03 21:35 |
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| 傻子Logic | 119 | 2010-05-03 21:38 |
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| 傻子Logic | 55 | 2010-05-02 18:09 |
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| topic | 89 | 2010-05-03 19:40 |
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| 傻子Logic | 70 | 2010-05-02 20:35 |
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| 傻子Logic | 31 | 2010-04-16 15:57 |
| 31 |
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| 傻子Logic | 121 | 2010-04-04 08:44 |
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| 傻子Logic | 63 | 2010-05-02 21:30 |
| 29 |
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| 粗腰大大 | 86 | 2010-05-03 01:35 |
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| 傻子Logic | 73 | 2010-05-03 06:40 |
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| 傻子Logic | 55 | 2010-05-03 07:02 |
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| 傻子Logic | 178 | 2010-05-03 08:43 |
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| 傻子Logic | 140 | 2010-05-03 08:54 |
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| 傻子Logic | 173 | 2010-05-05 10:34 |
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| 傻子Logic | 70 | 2010-05-03 09:25 |
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| 傻子Logic | 35 | 2010-05-04 10:33 |
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| 傻子Logic | 107 | 2010-05-03 15:59 |
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| topic | 0 | 2010-04-04 08:44 |
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| 傻子Logic | 109 | 2010-04-04 08:47 |
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| 傻子Logic | 420 | 2010-05-03 18:15 |
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| 傻子Logic | 136 | 2010-05-03 18:32 |
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| 傻子Logic | 20 | 2010-05-03 18:33 |
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| 傻子Logic | 77 | 2010-05-03 20:25 |
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| topic | 89 | 2010-05-03 21:00 |
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| topic | 29 | 2010-05-03 21:03 |
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| 傻子Logic | 86 | 2010-05-03 21:04 |
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| topic | 31 | 2010-05-03 21:13 |
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| 傻子Logic | 194 | 2010-05-03 21:21 |
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| topic | 27 | 2010-05-03 21:18 |
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| topic | 7 | 2010-05-03 21:44 |
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| 傻子Logic | 51 | 2010-05-03 22:44 |
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| 傻子Logic | 99 | 2010-05-04 11:48 |
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| topic | 133 | 2010-05-04 13:33 |
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| 傻子Logic | 117 | 2010-05-04 13:40 |
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| topic | 165 | 2010-05-04 14:59 |
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| 傻子Logic | 138 | 2010-05-04 15:03 |
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| 傻子Logic | 75 | 2010-04-12 07:25 |
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| topic | 55 | 2010-05-03 21:46 |
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| 傻子Logic | 71 | 2010-05-03 22:42 |
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| 傻子Logic | 32 | 2010-05-03 22:45 |
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| 傻子Logic | 73 | 2010-05-03 22:49 |
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| 傻子Logic | 198 | 2010-05-04 07:18 |
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| 傻子Logic | 60 | 2010-05-04 07:19 |
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| 傻子Logic | 96 | 2010-05-04 09:45 |
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| 傻子Logic | 232 | 2010-05-04 11:03 |
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| 傻子Logic | 69 | 2010-05-04 12:48 |
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| 傻子Logic | 54 | 2010-05-04 13:24 |
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| 傻子Logic | 118 | 2010-04-12 07:27 |
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| 傻子Logic | 108 | 2010-05-04 14:51 |
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| topic | 68 | 2010-05-04 15:04 |
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| topic | 43 | 2010-05-04 15:06 |
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| 傻子Logic | 67 | 2010-05-04 15:08 |
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| 傻子Logic | 108 | 2010-05-04 15:35 |
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| 傻子Logic | 15 | 2010-05-04 15:53 |
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| 傻子Logic | 69 | 2010-05-07 11:30 |
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| 傻子Logic | 167 | 2010-05-04 15:56 |
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| 傻子Logic | 615 | 2010-05-04 16:37 |
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| 傻子Logic | 142 | 2010-05-04 17:39 |
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| topic | 0 | 2010-04-04 09:01 |
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| topic | 30 | 2010-05-04 18:40 |
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| 傻子Logic | 83 | 2010-05-04 20:37 |
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| 傻子Logic | 71 | 2010-05-04 20:39 |
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| topic | 95 | 2010-05-04 21:08 |
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| topic | 72 | 2010-05-04 21:12 |
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| 傻子Logic | 72 | 2010-05-04 21:19 |
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| topic | 226 | 2010-05-04 21:30 |
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| topic | 236 | 2010-05-05 02:46 |
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| topic | 122 | 2010-05-04 21:25 |
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| 傻子Logic | 89 | 2010-05-04 21:27 |
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| 傻子Logic | 55 | 2010-05-04 21:35 |
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| 傻子Logic | 63 | 2010-05-04 21:31 |
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| topic | 191 | 2010-05-04 21:35 |
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Re:地产商也有“苦衷”
| chenjingfus | 8 | 2010-04-18 09:39 |
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| 傻子Logic | 25 | 2010-05-04 21:46 |
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| topic | 259 | 2010-05-04 21:54 |
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| 傻子Logic | 224 | 2010-05-04 22:24 |
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| 傻子Logic | 130 | 2010-05-04 22:22 |
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| 傻子Logic | 286 | 2010-05-04 22:28 |
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| topic | 129 | 2010-05-05 03:28 |
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| 儒墨道法 | 197 | 2010-05-05 06:26 |
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| topic | 45 | 2010-05-05 03:15 |
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| 傻子Logic | 150 | 2010-05-05 06:24 |
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| 儒墨道法 | 67 | 2010-05-05 06:28 |
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| 傻子Logic | 45 | 2010-05-05 06:36 |
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| 傻子Logic | 489 | 2010-05-05 09:04 |
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| 一寸人 | 3 | 2010-04-18 09:23 |
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| 傻子Logic | 119 | 2010-05-05 09:39 |
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| 傻子Logic | 51 | 2010-05-05 14:32 |
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| 傻子Logic | 74 | 2010-05-05 14:52 |
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| 傻子Logic | 289 | 2010-05-05 15:47 |
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| 傻子Logic | 245 | 2010-05-07 10:53 |
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| 傻子Logic | 135 | 2010-05-05 15:59 |
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| 傻子Logic | 75 | 2010-05-12 13:01 |
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| 傻子Logic | 229 | 2010-05-05 17:25 |
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| 傻子Logic | 98 | 2010-05-07 14:25 |
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| 傻子Logic | 256 | 2010-05-05 19:24 |
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| 傻子Logic | 155 | 2010-05-05 19:26 |
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| 注册建筑师证书 | 47 | 2010-04-18 09:23 |
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| 傻子Logic | 157 | 2010-05-05 19:45 |
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| topic | 258 | 2010-05-05 23:45 |
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| 傻子Logic | 12 | 2010-05-05 21:53 |
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| 傻子Logic | 80 | 2010-05-05 21:59 |
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| topic | 103 | 2010-05-05 23:41 |
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| 傻子Logic | 277 | 2010-05-06 00:06 |
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| 傻子Logic | 31 | 2010-05-06 05:48 |
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| topic | 0 | 2010-05-06 05:45 |
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| 傻子Logic | 141 | 2010-05-06 11:21 |
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| 傻子Logic | 310 | 2010-04-01 16:18 |
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| 傻子Logic | 125 | 2010-04-18 08:30 |
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| 傻子Logic | 63 | 2010-05-06 23:00 |
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| topic | 139 | 2010-04-18 01:07 |
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| 注册建筑师证书 | 1268 | 2010-04-18 08:58 |
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| 一寸人 | 242 | 2010-05-13 20:13 |
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| 粗腰大大 | 136 | 2010-05-13 21:16 |
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| topic | 0 | 2010-04-03 23:14 |
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| 注册建筑师证书 | 43 | 2010-04-19 09:13 |
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| 粗腰大大 | 345 | 2010-04-03 01:22 |
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| 注册建筑师证书 | 85 | 2010-04-17 08:36 |
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| 傻子Logic | 61 | 2010-04-21 10:40 |
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| xueshixiao | 36 | 2010-04-08 15:26 |
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| 傻子Logic | 57 | 2010-04-13 23:30 |
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| 傻子Logic | 95 | 2010-04-11 13:23 |
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| 傻子Logic | 42 | 2010-04-19 19:51 |
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| 傻子Logic | 88 | 2010-04-08 19:35 |
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| 傻子Logic | 85 | 2010-04-20 22:41 |
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| 欧阳白羽 | 314 | 2010-04-21 00:40 |
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Re:地产商也有“苦衷”
| 傻子Logic | 78 | 2010-04-13 15:47 |
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